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Growing a lawn! ?!


Question
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To answer some of  your questions from your response, I would say that the lawn only gets about 3 hours of good bright sun a day.   My house faces toward the east so the morning sun is about the only thing it recieves.  The trees block most of the afternoon sun and the sun sets behind the house. I dont have any problem at all with growing grass in the side yard which is almost completely sun.    
The soil is hard but not to hard to dig into.   There are alot of roots running under it because of the trees on either side of the yard(these maples are about 10-12 feet in circumfrence and about 50 feet high) which i believe also could be a part of the reason I'm having trouble with the lawn, lack of water.   I try to water daily when i have seed down.
I went to a garden center last year and got some grass made for shady areas and purchased enviro-soil and put it down before i layed the seed.   I had a white sheet like material that was recommended to be also by the garden center over it and the grass grew great but when i removed the cover and began to mow it....gone again.   I haven't looked at the website you sent me yet but that is my next stop.
Thanks for responding so quickly.
Brandie
Followup To
Question -
Hi there.   We've lived in this house for 13 years and have always had problems with the lawn but this winter has really killed it.    I also have dogs which i've limited to the back yard but the front I can't grow grass.  We've got to very large maple trees that shade most of the front during summer, which is one reason i believe we can't keep grass growing.   Every year i lay down grass seed and it comes up thinly throughout the spring and summer months but as soon as winter hits its gone and I've got to start  over again the next year.   
In the past it's been mostly thin grass with patches of bare,  this year the front yard it almost completely bare!   It's embarrassing!   How can I get a Nice lawn to grow and stay?

Thanks
Brandie
Answer -
Hi brandie;
Yep the shade probably has a lot to do with it, but I am wondering if you have a lot of clay in your soil too.
Hard, clay soil is HARD to grow anything in.
how much sun does your front lawn get?
Is it shaded all day or just part of the day?
If there is at least 5 or 6 hours of sun, morning or afternoon, grass should grow.
Also,there are some varieties of grasses that will tolerate more shade.
You could maybe prune out enough limbs to let some more sun on the lawn, and if too much clay in the soil is the problem, you can till in some amendants to loosen it up.
How hard is it to get a shovel in it?
there are beautiful ground covers that love shade. Some of them even bloom.
If you are not wanting a lawn you can walk all over, maybe ground covers would be a better way to go, then you can keep all the shade.
Go to this site, and look at the pictures of some of the ground covers. You can see a lot of pictures there.

    www.garden.org

If you decide to order online. I have been ordering from that site for about 8 years, with very satisfactory results.

That is a good place to look up plants, and see what they look like, and there are good information articles in there.

If your soil has too much clay or too much sand, write me and I will tell you hw to amend it, and that will save you a lot of work and grief.
Too loose or too tight soil just won't allow very good results.

If you are not sure which, take some of it to a local nurseryman and ask him wat condition as far as hard or loose it is.
What kind of grass do you plant?
Wht area do you live in?
I can search for which grasses are best for your area.
It may take a few letters back and forth, but we can figure this out.
Charlotte

Answer
Hi Brnadie;
Maples are fast growing trees and the roots tent to move up to the surface.
I had the same problem with a fruitless mulberry in my front yard, some years ago.
I kept bringing in more soil and watering with a root feeder. Finally I got the roots deep enough that the problem was fixed.. I haven't had to add soil since I raised the whiole area.
I built a retaing wall ( rock) about a foot high and filled it with a mixture of 4 parts cedar bark mulch, 1 part peat moss, and 1 part humus, tilled up with an equal parts of existing soil.
I had clay soil, and that is why I used such a large portion of bark mulch.
That half soil/half mix made loose enough soil to grow anything.
I slanted the soil back toward the tree, so the tree is setting in a sort of well. You can't pile soil against the trunk of the tree or you will kill the tree, but those roots came right up to the surface every yer.
The tree roots gobble up all the nutrients from the grass and shrubs.
You put more food, and the tree eats it all and grows like crazy and the grass and sgrubs get too little.
Watering daily adds to the problem.
I water to a depth of at least 6 inches, and rewater when the top  two inches of soil are dry.
That very loose soil, that deep allows the water to drain right through, keeping the soil damp long enough to water the plants, but stays longer down by the tree roots so they don't have to move to the surface to get water.
I have grass all around the walled area, but in that area i have herns and flowers, and evergreen spreaders.
I have the plants that require more sun at the outer edges of the raised area, and where the tree shades the yard, I have plants and flowers that like partial to full shade.
Trying to have grass there was just a losing battle.
You could raise the yard, with a retaining wall, and build a wall around the tree at the same height, or a little higher, and far enough away from the trunk to allow for growth. about 12 inches bigger around, maybe even more.
This would keep the soil away from the trunk, and bury the roots deep enough to alow other vegetation to get nutrients.
Fill with loose soil.
You can buy Planter's Mix, ( some companies that put it out call it Landscaper's Mix), mix this one art Mix and 1 opart your existing soil. then you would have loose soil deep enough to grow plants.
You will still have the problem of a lack of sun, and grass just needs more sun than that.
Can you remove lower limbs and some of the limbs throughout the trees to allow more sunin, without ruining the shape of the trees?
Lack of sun is equally as big a problem as the roots taking all the nourishment.
I always water everything 6 inches deep.
Grass roots will come to the surface too.
Shallow watering forces roots to the surface to get water, and these shallow roots are more susceptible to heat, cold and drought damage.
I switched to organics too which helped a lot.
Fertilizers only feed the vegetation, ( including weeds) they don't enrich the soil.
Bulid rich soil and weeds won't thrive. Weeds like poor soil.
I think your soil is also a bit too hard.
I think you are going to have to decide between what you want, and what will grow, or face having to sacrifice the trees, or maybe at least one of them.
You might consider turning it into a park like area, with a surface of paving stones, or pea gravel etc, laid in sand, to let water get to the trees, and putting raised beds to grow plants and flowering shrubs, with cute park benches, or seating areas among them.
Hm, amd I painting a picture or creating confusion?
With all those roots close to the surface, I think you are fighting a losing battle trying to grow grass.
With a problem area, you have to decide to work with instead of against what it WILL allow you to do.
You could consult a landscape architech or browse some gardening magazines and find some pictures of these pretty park like gardens.
If all you will be satisfied with is a grassy lawn ( some people just like that look), you are goig to have to scarifice some trees.
Wish I could offer a better solution, but you do have a big problem.
Charlotte  

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